How To Prioritize Your Career Over Your Job
Do you only promote your company’s brand and their achievements and forget to promote yours?
In this episode, we discuss why you need to promote yourself separately from your company and how to prioritize your career over your job.
We’re joined by Winter Wheeler - a former top civil litigator who has made her niche as an expert mediator. She is sought out for her unique, compassionate, and successful style of handling complex matters that involve a diverse range of cultures, including Spanish speaking clients.
Most recently, Winter was a senior attorney at a prominent law firm, and it’s this extensive body of experience she brings into her current mediation practice that makes her work stand out. A graduate of Georgetown University and Tulane Law School, Winter has always combined her passions for culture, diplomacy, and the law.
Winter is the creator of The Four Cornerstones of Mediation™, which she introduced to the world in her first TEDx talk in March 2021. She is co-author of the bestselling book, #Networked. She is also the creator and host of The Mediate Now™ podcast.
Follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram to join the community and continue the conversation.
Subscribe to our mailing list to receive career strategies, advice, and inspirational stories delivered straight to your inbox.
Transcript
Aisha: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the world in her words where we inspire Black women and women of color to take control of their careers through sharing strategies, advice, and inspirational stories. I'm your host Aisha Suleiman and to check out more of our content, sign up to our mailing list or to say hello, go to our website, theworldinherwords.com. Today, we'll be discussing how to prioritize your career over your job.
[00:00:25] This is a topic I'm really interested in because I believe it's really important to build your own personal brand, separate to the company that you work for. I have Winter Wheeler on the show today and Winter is a boss. I follow her on LinkedIn and I love reading her posts. One of her articles is called how to promote your career over your job.
[00:00:43] And it really stood out to me. Let's talk about it. Winter is a former top civil litigator who has made her niche as an expert mediator to start out for her unique and passionate and successful style handling complex matters that involve a diverse range of cultures, including Spanish speaking clients.
[00:01:01] Most recently, Winter was a senior attorney at a prominent law firm, and it's this extensive body of experience that she brings into her current mediation practice. that makes her work stand out. She's a graduate of Georgetown university and Tulane law school. And Winter has always combined her passions, culture diplomacy, and the law. Winter is the creator of the four cornerstones of mediation, which she introduced to the world in her first TEDx talk in March 2021.
[00:01:26] She's the co author of the best-selling book Networked. And she is also the creator and host of the mediate now podcast. So welcome to the show Winter, thank you for joining.
[00:01:39] Winter: [00:01:39] I'm really excited to be here. Thank you for having me.
[00:01:42] Aisha: [00:01:42] Great. Thank you. And let's just start with who is Winter? Tell us a little bit about you, your story and what you do right now.
[00:01:50] Winter: [00:01:50] It's always funny when people ask me that question because they're always surprised by my answer and I'm not quite sure what. So when I, when I describe myself, like in general, when I'm, , not just in a work situation, I start with, I'm a mommy, I'm a mommy, I'm a mommy, a four. And that's, that's the reason for everything else that I, I do and that I am.
[00:02:14]So my little kids they're three. Five seven and nine. So they keep me very, very busy. So I'm a mommy, but then I'm also a mediator and imidiate at home obviously when you have that many. And I'm constantly trying to mediate with my husband, but yeah, I'm a mommy and a mediator.
[00:02:36] Aisha: [00:02:36] Yeah, I like that.
[00:02:37] I liked the sound of that. SO fun fact, I actually took a mediation course when I was doing my masters and it was really interesting. I didn't go on to practice it, but I think the, the one thing I learned the most from that was active listening and they said something to me on that course. And it just stayed with me.
[00:02:53] Listening to respond is not the same thing as listening. And I just took that.
[00:02:58] Winter: [00:02:58] Yes. Absolutely. It's very, very different because typically when we're having a conversation, I'm just waiting to say the next thing. Like, I know that you're, you're talking about X and my opinion on X is, and so I'm waiting for you to stop talking because it's simply just rude to interrupt people as if it's not rude to not.
[00:03:17] Aisha: [00:03:17] Right, right, exactly. Yeah. But then why did you decide to go into mediating? Cause I was digging into you on LinkedIn and I saw that you'd been an attorney for many years. , why did you decide to go into mediation?
[00:03:31] Winter: [00:03:31] Mediation has been the goal for a very long time. I became an attorney in 2006 and very shortly after that realized that.
[00:03:42] Although I did enjoy litigating mediation was really where my, my heart was. That's, that's where I needed to be. And I realized that because when I got to mediate a lot, right. So I was working originally in Miami, Florida in the U S and in Florida, mediation is mandatory for every case. So I was mediating a lot and I love it.
[00:04:08] I loved it. I was probably doing it like two, three days a week. You don't obviously, as the lawyer, like representing someone and I was very curious about what it was like to be the mediator and, and like, see what was going on in the other room. I also am very interested in negotiating negotiation is. It is such an art form that, that most people either don't realize it's an art is an art form or are just terrible at it.
[00:04:38] But I was, I was very interested in it and I realized that probably by the end of 2006, 2007. And I decided that that's what I wanted to do with my life. So I was lucky enough to have a friend who was a mediator, who I met while I was working. So and then he became my mentor. And so I asked him, how can I be the best mediator that I can be and how can I make as much money as possible?
[00:05:05]And he said spend all the time that you can possibly stand as a litigator, learn different. Aspects of the law learn as much as you can. And that will make you more valuable because a lot of people do not. Do not believe that a non-attorney non long standing attorney can help them with a mediation right wrong, or otherwise I'm not here to, to judge any of those things.
[00:05:38] But that was the advice that I followed. I was already a lawyer and I was already working. So it was like, okay, fine. I'll just work for as long as I can possibly stand it. And there you go. So I've known for a very long time. And the reason, like the ultimate reason behind it is I'd like to make people happy.
[00:05:57] And I like to see people be happy. I like to see people be satisfied with what's going on in their lives and what they have. And with mediation, I'm able to do that.
[00:06:08] Aisha: [00:06:08] Yeah. What? This is great advice for people who want to make a career change as well, because I get asked that question a lot.
[00:06:13] How do you change careers? Cause I've done it a couple of times and you're so right. , you got a mediator, you asked the right questions, you used what you were doing at the time as an opportunity to learn and take that forward to the next role. But also this last bit where you've just said you chose something that actually made you happy.
[00:06:32] So important. I think, especially if you spend a bit of time in a particular field, if you're going to make that change, you might as well do something that makes you happy. Right?
[00:06:41] Winter: [00:06:41] Exactly. Exactly. And what's really interesting about mediation here in the states. I can't, I can't speak to anywhere, anywhere else.
[00:06:49]But what's really interesting about it. Most people go into it, thinking that it should be what you do when you retire as if mediation into this very easy relaxing kind of thing. Not right. Right. And so, , a lot of people do approach it that way. But I knew this is what I wanted to do with my life.
[00:07:10] And I tell you now, granted I'm hardcore in the sense that like, I go at everything with 150%, right. If, I mean, like it's not possible. Right. But I, over I over exert, right. I overexerted, I overdue. But I go with everything that I have. And so there's no way in the world I could be doing what I'm doing right now, when I'm.
[00:07:33] 65 or whatever the retirement age will be here when when it's time for me to even consider it the, I mean, there's just no way trying to build, , trying to build a new business, trying to switch. Careers is not easy. So, I don't know why we look at it that way, but anyway, I knew I wanted to spend my life as a mediator, not like the end of my life, which is really weird to talk about.
[00:08:00] So let's, I'm not going to say that again. Ah,
[00:08:06] Aisha: [00:08:06] so I've got a quote from you and so I'm going to read it to you. It was time to move on, but I was not ready and honestly afraid to make the change. Not only had I wrapped so much of my self esteem into my work, but I also had not taken the time to build a personal brand.
[00:08:22] I had marketed for the firm, but not enough for myself. And that is when your article, how to prioritize your career over at your job. How do you feel to hear me repeat that?
[00:08:35] Winter: [00:08:35] I absolutely hate it. I'm hated and, and, and really. Piece was very hard to write. I pride myself on my ability to be genuine.
[00:08:50] Right. And I try to be as honest as possible when I'm doing these things. And sometimes it's like, okay, , I don't remember exactly the, the process for writing that. I know it went really quickly, but I can't remember if I was like in tears or not, while I was doing it, I likely was. But to get some of those pieces out and that went in particular requires a lot of introspection and it requires me to relive things that I did not.
[00:09:25] Yeah. When I, when I was going through the process of leaving that particular law firm, it was, it was really awful. It was really an awful experience. And I had given everything I had because I really wanted that place to work. So I had put myself in this position where everything that I did, I was, I was leading with, I worked at this law firm.
[00:09:57] It was not I'm Winter and dah, dah, dah, dah. And I so happened to work at this law firm. It was, this is where I work. And, and then we went from there and , this was pre COVID. Right? So. I spent a lot of time and I say a lot, and it was like the vast majority of my time networking and, and chatting with people.
[00:10:20]And so I hate the term, but there was really no other one that really fits. I was, I was, am a socialite. So I'm meeting new people all the time. I'm, , trying to get out there. And so everyone knew me. Someone who was an attorney at this firm. And when I realized, but I did not want to be an attorney at that firm anymore, it was hard.
[00:10:52] It was hard for other people to accept that I'm no longer there. And there are probably people even now who still think that they're there, if they're not following me. Right. Cause I haven't seen them in person. Since 2019, probably early 20. Yeah.
[00:11:10] Yeah. So why do you think it's really important to build your own personal brand and sort of market yourself instead of just the company you work for?
[00:11:18] Aisha: [00:11:18] Because I think a lot of us do that. Exactly. As you said, you're not, let's say for example, Aisha who is a content creator, does a podcast, she's really good at X, Y, Z, and oh, by the way, she happens to work for this company. It's oh, no, I'm Aisha and I work for this company and people really tie themselves to that. Why do you think it's important to remove yourself from that?
[00:11:40] Winter: [00:11:40] Because you are your own person. Yep. You, you are your own entity. And I know that a lot of people don't like the term personal brand. They think that it like cheapens you as a person. It's listen. I think that all of that is nonsensical. You are a brand and it's because not everyone can know who you are.
[00:12:02] It's impossible to meet everyone and have everyone actually know who you are as a person. You are who you are in that space. Right for them. If you're having a terrible day and you have a run-in with someone, they think you're the worst person on the planet and they will, they will, they will always think that they will always think that they could be completely wrong.
[00:12:24] And you literally were having the one bad day out of the month, or you could be having an exceptionally great day and you run into somebody and you're like, I want to bless you with a hundred dollars. And then you just hand them cash. They think you're fantastic. Right. It's all about snapshots. We can't, we can't forget that other people do not look at us the way that we see ourselves.
[00:12:49] We can't forget that. No one knows Winter. The way Winter knows Winter I'm I'm myself all day long. I realized that I have a range of emotions. I have a range of, , I wouldn't say personalities like. Like clinical, but I'll, I'll use the term, but like a range of personalities, depending on what's going on in my life and where I am and what I'm doing, , if I'm, if I'm talking about my kids and if I need to defend one of my children, you're not gonna find me very pleasant.
[00:13:22] If I am talking about mediation and , kind of in this situation, I think I'm pretty excited and like happy to talk about it. So you have to consider what you're putting out. And especially now post COVID when we're doing a lot of virtual things and you can, you can pick your background and you can pick your outfit and you can pick your makeup and you can, you can control a lot of these things now.
[00:13:46] And on social media, you get to decide what it is that you. Nobody's telling you what to say. It's not random. It's not live. You decide what you're going to put out there. And so your personal brand is the you that you would like for people to know.
[00:14:05] Aisha: [00:14:05] Yeah. And I think it also opens doors for you, right. Because if you're just, let's say, Aisha who works for X company, that's very limiting. Right. But if you're Aisha who does 1, 2, 3, 4, and oh, just happens to work for this company, then people start to see you as a person separate from that. And that can open up opportunities for you because then they're reaching out to you on LinkedIn and saying, oh, you spoke about, let's say personal branding, for example, would you be willing to come and give us a talk about personal branding? We'll give you, we'll pay you for that. Or it's a way for you to sort of showcase your skills and who you are as a person.
[00:14:38] And that actually draws people in because they feel like that's more authentic. Cause sometimes on LinkedIn, when I see people posting stuff to do with their company, Sometimes it seems very robotic. I don't bother reading it because I'm like, you just posting this, because you work for this company, but when it's a personal post and it's about them, I'm more likely to engage and be like, oh, I actually want to talk to them because I know it's them actually saying something rather than just posting it because maybe their company asked them to repost it.
[00:15:07] Winter: [00:15:07] Exactly. I'm associated with a few different mediation firms. And, if you're out, if you live outside of my, general geographic region of Atlanta, Georgia you probably wouldn't know that unless I told you it, I'm not hiding it, but it's just, I'm not that brand, that brand is not me.
[00:15:31] And so the way that I think about it well, and I think about it this way, because someone literally said it to me When you leave your job, what do you take with you? I love that. And I really sat and I thought about that. And all you take is your name and your reputation, right. And you could leave all of the stuff behind.
[00:15:55] If you don't have that company name with you, who are you? What? What's there? What's left. And I, I mean, when I tell you girl, I stopped and I thought about that and I was like, oh my God, what have I been doing? I need to stop this. Now I did. I was like, I have to stop this now. This is not okay. I will never do this again.
[00:16:20]And now if you need to be strategic about it and be strategic about it, if, if in a certain part of the world, like where I am in Atlanta, the company that I am associated with locally here very often. Very helpful. You'll hear me talk about that more. Like for example, I'm typically like Facebook friends with my current clients and most of them are in Atlanta.
[00:16:44] Or hear me talk about that from when I'm on LinkedIn and I'm attracting clients from all over the country and all over the world, frankly. You won't hear me talk about that? You just hear me talk about myself and the mediation company that I. Right. Yeah. You want to have your own thing? So if I, if I decide that I don't want to be associated with any mediation company at all, I already have my own and people know that, or people know that I'm a mediator and no matter where I am, they will come looking for me.
[00:17:19] Aisha: [00:17:19] I love that. And just to kind of make a nice segue, then what are some of the practical ways you can sort of do that? So market yourself more rather than just, the company you work for. So say I currently work for a company. How do I sort of position my brand and market myself instead of just the company.
[00:17:36] Winter: [00:17:36] Talk about yourself, talk about yourself and start come to terms with how comfortable you are talking about yourself. A lot of people are not comfortable with that. And I tell you, it took me a long time. If you, if, if you are ever really, really bored and you want to look back at like my posting history, LinkedIn it changed it evolved and I just became.
[00:18:08] More comfortable with myself. And the way that I was able to do it is I was seeing other people, having these conversations, talking about what was really going on in their life, how they were feeling negatively or vulnerable or whatever, they were celebrating, something that they had worked for, whatever it was.
[00:18:30] I enjoyed those posts. I enjoyed that. I didn't care where they worked and, and. I it's hard and I'm not sure why, but it's hard for people to figure that out for themselves while I can see that, , I like John DOE over here because of what he says and what what he talks about and how he tells me about his life.
[00:18:52]It's hard to believe that anyone might be interested in your life, right? Because most of us do not sit and think about our own lives as interesting. Okay. I do not think about my own interesting at all. It's very interesting. Thank you. I have, I have come to accept that other people find interesting and I do live and lead a life.
[00:19:20] That's very different from other people. I do have a life philosophy that is very different from others and, , I realized that a long time ago, but I don't feel like I really like moved into it, started to walk in it until, I mean, I can't, I can't remember exactly when this was, but it was, it was this year.
[00:19:43] So we're talking 2021, not 2019, not 2020 when I started to get active on LinkedIn. But I really started to understand that when I was applying for jobs, When I started applying, applying for the TEDx. Right. And the feedback that I got was amazing. And it's like, this is something I've not heard before.
[00:20:06] I've never seen this before. And I'm like, really, like, that's like legitimately how I've always lived my life into, like, , now, now it's a Ted talk or a TEDx talk. Let me not get in trouble with Ted. He does a Ted X talk. And so it gave me a lot of perspective on how other people view me and how, how I show up as my authentic self.
[00:20:36] And, , I, I credit not only the TEDx process, but. The responses that I've gotten from those who have, have watched the talk. And then also the people that I interact with, like, like you today and you don't also own my own podcast. And just all of that feedback has made me more comfortable, more confident Because, , you, you think of yourself as just like whoever, like I'm just a person, I'm just doing my thing.
[00:21:08]But whatever that thing is that you have that you do, no one else has. And you've got to realize that and understand it. I don't know if that answered your question.
[00:21:20] Aisha: [00:21:20] It does it does. It does answer the question. Because again, around this whole authenticity vulnerability thing, you can tell when someone is actually being authentic.
[00:21:30] And I think people gravitate to that, even if it's not perfect, like I was listening to those podcasts the other day and she was talking about storytelling and how people actually love like a good redemption story, because it makes them feel inspired because it's like, oh, this person made a mistake and they came out of it.
[00:21:45] This is how they did it. No one really wants to hear. Oh, I was great. And then everything was great. And then everything upgraded.
[00:21:51] Winter: [00:21:51] I'm perfect. I've always been perfect.
[00:21:54] Aisha: [00:21:54] Right. So I think it's really important that you said that. So I've got another quote for you. Oh. And by the way, if you're listening to this, I will link to Winter's podcasts in the show notes so make sure you check it out, the Mediate Now podcast.
[00:22:08]And. Yeah. Yeah. And my next question then, but first I'm going to start with the quote. So here we go.
[00:22:15] Winter: [00:22:15] Here we go.
[00:22:19] You're like sick of me.
[00:22:21] No, not at all. It's just, these quotes are cringey.
[00:22:27] Aisha: [00:22:27] Okay intellectually. I have always, it's been able to distinguish between my career and my jobs yet, despite knowing that my jobs were just steps on the path to my career, I became bogged down in the minutiae of those positions in these funds, often working to the point of obsession, sacrificing who I am in exchange for a paycheck should never have happened.
[00:22:50] So Winter...
[00:22:52] Winter: [00:22:52] I wrote that? Great.
[00:23:01] Aisha: [00:23:01] So why do you think we forget who we are and sacrifice other important things in our lives when we're working? The big question.
[00:23:10] Winter: [00:23:10] Here's a big question. And gosh, , when I wrote. I think it was the beginning of 2021, potentially. I'm not even sure at this point when I wrote it, there was no, I wrote that.
[00:23:24] I wrote that in 2020, and it came out much later. After I wrote it, I think. Yes. Yes, that's correct. But yeah, God, how did I get there?
[00:23:45] It's a very hard question because it took me so long to get there. And it's kind of like what I was saying before. I found myself in a position in which to try to make other people happy. I was working and working and working and hoping that they would finally be satisfied. And I had never considered myself to be a people pleaser because I've always been a very assertive and very willing to talk about things that make other people uncomfortable. Hence, the TEDx talk that I did It was a friend of mine who very recently helped me see that I am in fact, a people pleaser.
[00:24:38] And so when I wrote that article, I didn't know that at the time. So it's very interesting how I worded those things on how I got to that conclusion.
[00:24:52] But it was, it was about, it was about always wanting to be perfect. Always wanting to be successful, like whatever that meant in the moment. So if at the law firm being successful meant that I was on, I had been appointed to various committees and I was doing, or for them and people in the firm knew who I was and they all came to me for help or look to me for advice.
[00:25:22] That was a big deal. If , someone brand new came to the firm, they knew who I was already. That was exciting. If I was supposed to build 2000 plus hours, I wanted to build 2000 plus hours. If I was supposed to settle X number of cases, I wanted to settle X number of cases in the entire time. I knew now.
[00:25:45] Cause remember, I already said, I knew in 2006, 2007, that I wanted to be a mediator. So the things, the things that I was doing in 2019 had absolutely nothing to do with what I want to do now and what I am doing now. And I knew that I knew that everywhere I was, but I was so invested in being the perfect Winter, whatever that meant in the moment that I stopped thinking about myself.
[00:26:23] And it wasn't until that fateful conversation I had with a, a woman senior partner in 2019, that it finally hit me. You're never going to be enough unless you're doing exactly what they want you to do. It's never going to be enough. And so. When I got the opportunity to work at the mediation firm that I'm now associated with in Atlanta, I guess the state of Georgia.
[00:27:00] Anyway, that was a big deal. It's the top firm in the Southeast huge deal. And I should have been able to work there. And at my law firm simultaneously, there was no conflict. It should have been workable and he was a big deal, what they sh and I mean, what they should have done, what I believe they should have done was used it for marketing.
[00:27:33] What I had, what I had accomplished at that age was a big deal. It is a huge deal, and they knew that, but what they were focused on. And what this woman said to me was, well, if you're building a mediation career, how much horsepower are we getting out of you? Oh, so I went a whole lot of places with horsepower, right?
[00:28:01] There are some racial implications and all of that. Yeah, I had never heard of it, but the billable hour had never been called horses. To me in my 14 years. So I went completely left and I was like, oh, oh, okay. I'm nothing to you other than these billable hours. So you, you pretend that you care, you pretend because I'm doing something that you want.
[00:28:32] I'm bringing you I'm bringing a positive spin to the firm, right? And so the joke was, and someone would call me the ambassador for the firm. Like ha ha. That's so funny. You're the ambassador. You're the mascot. So I I was out talking about this firm all the time because I was out doing my thing and I had wrapped myself so deeply in this, from that what I was really doing was talking about them.
[00:29:02] And it's, it's always great when people are excited about diversity, like they are right now. Black women in particular talking about how great your firm is. Right? And so when I, that, in that instant, when that, when she said horsepower, I said, you have been absolutely played. You have been, you are a fool.
[00:29:29] Stop it, stop it. Now, stop it. I quit my job two hour later.
[00:29:36] Aisha: [00:29:36] Ooh. Wow. But what you just said, it's a sad reality. A lot of companies do see people as that with our horsepower billable hours. And that is why it's almost like they don't want you to have something outside of them. Then they start questioning, oh how committed are you to the job?
[00:29:54] Even if you are, because if you sort of spread your wings and, promote your brand and you're Winter who works for us, then it's like, wait, other people are going to see how valuable you are and then they're going to want you. And then you're going to realize how great you are and then you might not want us.
[00:30:12] And rather than seeing it as an opportunity for them, like, oh, Winter is going to bring all of this skill all of this value let's invest in Winter. Let's help her do this other thing she wants to do on the side and support her. They don't see it that way. It comes from a position of fear. Oh no, we need to clip her wings and make sure she just stays Winter who works for X firm
[00:30:31] Winter: [00:30:31] Yes. Because they see, they see your power, which is why they hired you. They know that you have it, but what they want is to keep it for themselves. That's right. And you cannot let them do that. If, if, if where you are, if the company you work for is threatened by your power, you're at the wrong place, no one should be threatened by your power.
[00:31:02] They should be encouraging it and realize it enhances their brand. Every time someone who is associated with it, does it.
[00:31:11] Aisha: [00:31:11] That is it. And they should be cheering you on just like you are doing for them. So Winter, how can we then remain grounded and not get sucked into things like working the long hours or, , putting our job ahead of our career.
[00:31:28] Winter: [00:31:28] It's hard, and it might honestly require therapy and I'm not kidding. I have been in therapy probably since 28.
[00:31:43] Aisha: [00:31:43] Oh my God. Me too. For like the past two years therapy is the best.
[00:31:47] Winter: [00:31:47] It is the absolute best because a lot of it is just me talking and then I'll get stuck and I'll be like, but I don't understand that.
[00:31:56] And then she'll reframe, reframe it for me. Or I will say for example my therapist and I were talking about this situation that I was having with my husband and how frustrated I was. And then I said, But eventually I just stopped. I just stopped talking and I just listened to him and was very intentional in intentional that I just think, well, I think we can make up words.
[00:32:23] It's fine. I liked that one. I was very intentional with my listening. It was the most active listening I think I've ever done with him. And so while I'm, it's easy for me. To actively listen to other people in my personal life. It's not, it's not automatic. It's not easy. And especially when I'm dealing with my husband, but this particular day, I was like, what, I'm just going to shut up.
[00:32:56] He's going on and on about this thing. I don't think it's that important, but obviously he does. And I just like. I just listened. I didn't tune him out. I wasn't just waiting to hear, , waiting for him to stop talking so I could say something else. And I just was like, okay. And why do you feel that way?
[00:33:13] And what can I do? And how can I help? And I was just asking questions and, and to be honest, I had no intention. Ever doing any of the things that he was suggesting, but just talking about it and giving him the room to, to say it and having him feel like he was being heard, he was being seen. I mean, the conversation ended very, very quickly, like we just moved on.
[00:33:46]And so while I never took the action, he was asking me to take in that conversation. He was fine. He was fine. It was less about me doing the thing and more about him, about him telling me about the thing he wanted me to know. It was a thing. And then he was able to just get over it.
[00:34:09] Aisha: [00:34:09] Yeah, I love that. So if you want to not get sucked into long hours, you need to have someone in your life telling you to just like listen to them.
[00:34:17] And also you need to go to therapy. That's that's our advice.
[00:34:21] Winter: [00:34:21] Yes, that, that, that was, that was my very long winded answer. Roundabout answer, go to therapy. Have someone else to talk to for sure, because you, you do. We get wrapped up in our own thoughts and we get stuck in our own head. And if you're like me a professional.
[00:34:37] And a people pleaser it's really easy, really easy to get stuck.
[00:34:45] Aisha: [00:34:45] All right, Winter. My last question for you then is knowing everything that now, all your wisdom let's go back to when you were trying to make the leap into starting your own business, what advice would you give to yourself?
[00:35:01] Winter: [00:35:01] Oh, my God, there's so much, but I think the key piece of advice is to believe in yourself and to not listen to anyone, anyone else, because other people can't view you through any lens other than the lens they view themselves.
[00:35:26] So if they have limiting beliefs, they will put those limiting beliefs on you. So I was told so many times you're never going to be successful. This is never going to work for you. You're just going to go back to a law firm. And thankfully I did not, I did not listen, but it happens that people are told these things and they do listen.
[00:35:51] And they don't do what their heart tells them to do. They don't jump into their life's passion. And so, yeah, it's like, don't listen to anybody and if it in your heart, that's it, listen to yourself, follow your intuition, , be cautious, but don't, don't ever limit yourself based on what other people.
[00:36:16] Aisha: [00:36:16] Yeah, I love that. You're so right about the self limiting beliefs. This is why I say to people, you need to be careful who you actually take advice from. And when you're taking advice from people consider their own context, because exactly as you said someone might say, oh I don't think I can be, let's say a director.
[00:36:32] I don't think I can start my own business. They will say that. And so when you come with your ideas and you're saying, you want to do this, they're kind of like, oh no, you can't do that. But that's because they don't think they can, they can do it. And just because they don't think they can do it, that doesn't mean that you can't do it.
[00:36:46] So I think that is great advice. Thank you Winter. Thank you. All right. Thank you for joining the show. Really appreciate all your advice and your stories.
[00:36:58] Winter: [00:36:58] I'm so happy that I got to come and chat with you.
[00:37:04] Aisha: [00:37:04] If you want to join our community of Black women and women of color, to talk more about this topic, then follow our LinkedIn or Instagram page. I'd love to hear from you to read the show notes for this episode, go to theworldinherwords.com. Take good care of yourself.
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